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James Daugherty (Visitor)
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future of the markets >H Money and markets in the future  
Transhuman Mailing List I am going to summarize my perspective on this particular thread with the purpose of drawing my end of it to a close.  There are only so many different ways in which I can ask for clarification of the points that are still unclear to me without it getting repetitive, and I feel that my questioning is already into the territory of diminishing returns. My perspective on the Extropian view of economics and markets, obtained from the information presented to this list primarily by Max More and Eric Watt Forste, is as follows: 1. Extropianism is concerned with giving today's Extropians an effective    foundation for practicing their Extropianism, which in today's world    means building a sound financial _base_.  To that end, Extropianism    makes specific recommendations concerning freelance work patterns,    investments and other practical issues, and these recommendations    apply today and therefore operate within today's markets and today's    financial system. 2. Extropianism seems to have a substantial _base_ of ideas concerning the    structure of future economics, apparently concentrated in paper books    and magazine articles.  (I do not know whether the various referenced    items are just those with which Extropianism finds a resonance, or    whether they actually represent Extropian future economics in a more    specific way.)  These ideas all centre around the term market which    does not denote the free-market of today;  Extropians make that    distinction very plain when they are speaking of the differences.    It leads to semantic confusion as soon as the discussion turns to    economics in general, since then one cannot know to which version    of market they refer. 3. Extropianism does not treat all economic and financial possibilities    even-handedly:  there is specific and fully open support for any    scheme that uses something that I will call (as per others) essense    of market .  I do not know what essense of market is, as everyone    seems to have a personal slant on it, and most explanations have been    phrased using terms like trade which bring in other baggage and so    succeed only in part at bringing out that essense, while clouding the    issue further.  The constant movement of the definitional goalposts    makes it plain to me that essense of market is largely a scattered    set of basic plus points extracted from a range of personal pro-market    perspectives, and the common thread is that they provide the feelgood    factor to pro-marketeers for whom market is an emotive issue.  It    is this emotional entanglement that I believe to be the reason why    Extropianism does not treat all possibilities even-handedly.  Note    that I am not saying that there is no logic behind the Extropian    market affections, quite the opposite, there is a *very* large amount    of sound reasoning to support it;  what I am saying is that, in    addition to the reasoned basis, there is an emotive attachment which    is unreasoned. 4. Extropianism also admits the possibility of experiments in which    other economic ideas can be tested, and therefore does not close    itself off from alternatives entirely.  A few Extropians do discuss    the realm of possibilities completely even-handedly so it seems that    there is no unanimity in this, but the leading proponents have a very    strong bias and regularly justify it on the basis that nobody has    presented them with a better structural proposal.  There appears to    be no clear and stated support for the transhuman perspective that    the realm of future possibilities is so vast and varied that it is    utterly impossible to delimit it within a structure that is closely    modelled on the structures of today. 5. Points 1, 2 and 3 all refer to market as meaning different things,    and my attempt at placing the discussion on safer semantic grounds has    been rejected.  I infer that clarification is felt to be unnecessary,    and since the proponents are otherwise totally logical, from this    I conclude that they must view market as intrinsically well-founded    and useful whatever the context, notwithstanding that they recognize    the many faults in today's market.  I can see no other explanation    for this beyond a clear emotional attachment to market .  I know that    if I were a leader in Extropian thought I would seek to discard the    liability that this overused word constitutes, and to lead discourse    forward into a setting free of confusion and emotive tangles. That is the perspective that I have gained on this topic.  I am sure that it is at variance with that of Max and Eric, but it is as close as I have been able to come to a picture of Extropian economic thought _base_d on their response to my queries. I would certainly like to hear any different slant on the Extropian view, especially if old ground could be avoided.  I'll avoid replaying the same tape as before from my end though, as this isn't a debating forum per se. Rich.
 
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